Shoreham so you can Dieppe; Henry next would go to France, John residing in

Shoreham so you can Dieppe; Henry next would go to France, John residing in

He was at the most 21 and you will perhaps young than that when their daughter Joanna was born. She may very well had been the newest oldest of the many students the guy fathered by the his certain mistresses.

John was born in December 1167

1187 June - John into the France whenever Chateauroux had been besieged 1187 June 23 - truce 1188 Jan. 30 - Henry productivity so you can England, possibly which have John when you look at the pull 1188 June - Henry delivers John back again to , crosses away from 1189 June several - John from the Le People's important link whenever disarmed because of the Henry's buy, immediately after which John escaped otherwise is added aside to own shelter 1189 July six - Henry I dies inside France 1189 Aug. a dozen - Richard will bring John back into The united kingdomt which have your 1189 Aug. 29 - John partnered to Isabelle off Gloucester within Marlebridge 1189 September. 3 - Richard crowned within Westminster Abbey 1189 October. - Richard delivers John for the Wales to help you subdue the new edgy Welsh 1190 Feb. - John summoned to and pushed to your oath to not set foot with the The united kingdomt for a few age 1190 Summer - Richard goes on campaign [John holidays their oath] For the objectives, it is considered that 1st several months, and also the very most likely going back to Joanna for come devised, is the 1187-9 months. 1187 - John spends around the year inside France 1188 - John may have gone back to England during the January, however, of the summer is distributed back once again to France, where he appears to have stayed 1189 - John seems to be within the France January - August, coming back in order to England inside August when preparing having their matrimony towards the 31 Aug. In the event that John generated no further unrecorded production in order to England, it seems that he invested on 80% regarding his day out-of January 1187 up to their marriage, in France . He had been will ultimately given the Condition regarding Mortain, inside the (just before Richard's coronation).

The aforementioned recommendations, because of the months therefore the undeniable fact that Joanna are introduced to help you England regarding France within the 1203 to have their marriage so you're able to Llywelyn, gives credence toward idea that Joanna along with her mother was from French/Norman supply.

Given and additionally John's really-known philandering during this period, there appears to be many people towards role regarding mom out of Joanna!

My personal earlier in the day post offered all the details that Paget indicated that they try Clemence de Dauntsey, just who hitched Nicholas de- Verdun. We considered that it was brand new Nicholas and you will Clementia to help you whom Henry 111 offered new custody of Susanna (as an excellent hostage) from inside the 1228. Shortly after another type of long browse although not, I am able to get a hold of no shadow regarding a beneficial Clemence de- Dauntsey inside the details. Used to do come across however, the brand new thoughts of a single genealogist whom clearly stated it as…’ I believe we (the genealogists) established that there are zero such as for instance people as Clemence de- Dauntsey. That character of your partner off Nicholas de Verdun try good mistake by the Paget!’

I’m ready to believe that conclusion, since the further analysis of the information of the second Clemence turned out alot more productive.


Clemence ce Boteler came into this world in the 1175 when you look at the Steeple Lavington, Wiltshire. Their dad is actually Philip le Boteler (born circa 1150).

Clemence ce Boteler hitched Nicholas de Verdun for the 1202 (their second spouse shortly after their wedding so you’re able to Joan Fitz Piers. Note, so it relationships isn’t shown) within Alton, Staffordshire plus they had one youngster, Rohese de- Verdun who was produced when you look at the 1203 or 1205 (passed away. Feb 1247).

In the event that, actually, Joanna try caused by a beneficial liaison ranging from John and you may Clemence le Boteler (that would was indeed old as much as fourteen-15 during the time), it can was very difficult on Ce Boteler relatives to track down the right husband for Clemence. In reality certain 10 years ticket ahead of good ily?) with a trusting English nobleman and you can property holder, Nicholas de- Verdun. Leaving out for the moment the chance that Nicholas had dropped crazy about the brand new 27 year old Clemence and wanted to marry their unique, it might had been necessary for John to add Clemence having some property from her own making sure that she became a more glamorous prize for their husband to be.